Expected software update support length?
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@Tomas5 I’d rather go with a stable device with known feature set than an unknown. Race S seems like a good replacement if you want something small and are into AMOLED.
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@maszop said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven This is not a good comparison. You don’t change your watch as often as you change your phone.
Depends on the person. Last year I got the iPhone 16 (2024), and my last one was the iPhone 12 mini (2020). In the early days of the Apple Watch I was upgrading it every two years, with the previous watch being passed to my child, and the oldest watch in the sequence sold to offset the cost. My current Apple Watch is Series 7 (2021) and I just recently got the Race S, so that’s four years there, so about equal to my phone upgrade cycle.
I often see people not upgrading their phones for 5-6 years; someone I know is still on the iPhone SE (2020). I think it’s reasonable some highly active fitness enthusiasts upgrade their watches at a higher rate.
I agree it is nice when companies commit to an upgrade cycle time so customers know. However, I think that may also cause people to expect things that may not happen. It might be the upgrades don’t cover the areas a particular person wants. I mentioned elsewhere I’d like to see Suunto support bluetooth FTMS (FiTness Machine Service) connections to gym machines so I can properly connect a rowing machine to get complex data into the Suunto ecosystem. Even if I knew Suunto was going to support the Race S til say 2030 for another five years that does not mean I will get my requested feature.
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@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
someone I know is still on the iPhone SE (2020)
Here I am with an iPhone SE 2016. It was one of the last models you could easily get inside of to replace the battery and other components without a trip to the “genius” bar. It’d be great if I could do that with my Vertical, but I understand the whole waterproofing issue.
@maszop said in Expected software update support length?:
You don’t change your watch as often as you change your phone.
In the meantime, I’ve “tested” way more watches than I care to admit! I guess we all have our thing.
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@Tomas5 I suggest the Race S rather than the Race. The heart rate sensor of the Race is quite poor. The “S” has a better heart rate sensor and is slightly smaller. Otherwise they’re essentially the same.
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This thread got me curious about Suunto’s history, which I did not know much about, so I’ve been doing some research. The following may have errors; I’m using Perplexity to help but have not yet gone through all the citations.
It seems we can make the start of a “modern era” for Suunto with the release of the Suunto 3 in 2018?
That watch apparently started with OS version 1.0 (appropriate) and stops at 2.19.42 in Suunto’s older UI style. It seems support was 2018-2022, four years.
The new widget based UI was introduced with 2.30.x line with the Vertical and Race. There simply has not been a lot of models with a clear history of continual updates that I can see, and likely part of this may be due to Suunto’s ownership changes.
Compare with Apple, who I know more about, the oldest iPhone supported current iOS 18.4.1 is the iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, and iPhone XR, all released in 2018.
Meanwhile, the oldest Apple Watch supported by current watchOS 11.4 is the Apple Watch Series 6, released in 2020, as well as the Apple Watch SE (2nd generation).
So we have at least seven years of support for iPhone XS and XR, and at least five years support for Apple Watches. The original Apple Watch (very hardware limited compared to new models) was supported 2015-2018; the Series 4 went from 2018 (watchOS 5) to 2024 (watchOS) for about six years.
My Suunto Race S was released last year 2024. I’d hope to get at least four years of support like the Suunto 3 received (again, if my info is correct) and matching Apple up to six years I think is reasonable. However, I’m not sure I’d want to bet money on any of that.
Here’s a chart that includes most released models since the 3 (although at least the Ocean is missing here, sorry), and I included the Run which has not technically been officially released but it’s not really secret; and the 5 Peak should be in the middle column sigh.
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I can only say I bought Suunto Vertical 2 years ago, and they added so many new things, and speed up interface. Feels like different tool if You use with current software, or took out of the box without updates.
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@MRC01 didn’t know that Race S has better WHR sensor. This is important for me as i usually use only sensor on watch and Suunto 5 is often inacurrate.
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@Tomas5 said in Expected software update support length?:
@MRC01 didn’t know that Race S has better WHR sensor. This is important for me as i usually use only sensor on watch and Suunto 5 is often inacurrate.
Yes, DCRainmaker notes it in his review of the Race S: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/06/suunto-race-s-in-depth-review-smaller-cheaper.html
Depending on the types of activities you do, I’d still recommend a chest strap like the Polar H10 for some activities. In particular, for me indoor rowing, HIIT plyometrics, and dumbbells are times when the wrist is not great for getting accurate heart rate. Additionally, if you want to use Suunto’s ZoneSense feature, that requires a chest strap.
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@Tomas5 Yes, the Race S actually has dual HR sensor LEDs for improved reliability and accuracy. Probably because Suunto recognized the poor performance of the single LED sensor in the Race.
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To echo what others have said, the Vertical has received all the updates that the Race and Race S have received as far as the update notes are concerned. It has truly made it a new watch. Having said that there is no way around the subpar HR sensor. It is truly trash. I do really enjoy using Zone Sense so that has me wearing my H10 every work out so it kind of cancels out all the other issues.
The few times I have used my Race S without the H10 I have been pleasantly surprised that it does really well in my zone 2 runs. I haven’t done intervals with it, but for steady state efforts it keeps up.
I think the question for the future of all the Vertical. Race, and Race S watches is whether or not the new OS that they have coming on the Run will be backwards compatible all the way back to these older watches. There do not seem to be a ton of changes that would make me think that it is not possible with the new OS, but time will tell. Suunto is not like Garmin fishing for every penny they can get. I was pretty upset when they said that the Fenix 8 OS would not work on Fenix 7 or 7 Pro watches even though the Fenix E is the hardware from an Epix. Seemed to me to be a bit of tomfoolery. But then, Garmin is so buggy these days, maybe the bugs were too hard to crush.
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@Stavrogin said in Expected software update support length?:
I think the question for the future of all the Vertical. Race, and Race S watches is whether or not the new OS that they have coming on the Run will be backwards compatible all the way back to these older watches.
If the information that has been leaked is accurate, then it seems a new feature for the Run will be the ability to play music stored locally on the watch instead of only controlling media on a linked phone. Given the Run also appears to be an entry level model with the Race the next step up, it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature.
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@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature
Then there would have to be a way to copy music to the old watches… Wont work with the present charging puck (no data channels). Possibly, ahem, possible over Bluetooth, but then oh so slowly!
Based on pictures on Amazon the Suunto Run has a new puck that facilitates the music copying.
I really do not think they will dive into all the pain of trying to patch music onto older watches, and really do not even want them to try. Bug Heaven!
Suunto Race S
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@Inge-Nallsson Should be an interesting week!
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@Inge-Nallsson said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature
Then there would have to be a way to copy music to the old watches… Wont work with the present charging puck (no data channels). Possibly, ahem, possible over Bluetooth, but then oh so slowly!
Based on pictures on Amazon the Suunto Run has a new puck that facilitates the music copying.
I really do not think they will dive into all the pain of trying to patch music onto older watches, and really do not even want them to try. Bug Heaven!
Ah, I missed the thought of a new puck. I assumed wifi, or bluetooth transfer even though it’s not fast. How do maps gets sent over? Those are decently sized files. I see on the Amazon link the Run has 4GB of storage, while the Race S has 32 GB of storage. if the Race S can send maps to fill 32GB, then I’d imagine it can also get some songs.
Also, where is the music coming from? With maps, in my case I sent them from the Suunto app running on my iPhone. Even with a data cable connected to the watch, there would still be a wireless aspect coming from the phone. If the music situation with the Run is it requires connecting to a computer, that’s going to be awkward for some. I do most of my computing from an iPad Air, for example.
I’m under the assumption the new Run is largely based on the Race / Race S and will be a subset of the Race functions. The new local music, therefore, should be brought over to the Race series. We’ll see soon enough.
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In this case, i am not sure they will add music playback to older devices. This feature require more than just software. You need special hardware ( some kind of soundcard) if you want to play music efficiently. In case bluetooth connected headphones, bluetooth chip need to support it. I am not sure if older devices has this required hardware. But i hope other (software) features will be backported.
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@Tomas5 I can hear the millions complain as they do with Coros. "Where is my Spotify!?!?!?!?!
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@Tomas5 said in Expected software update support length?:
In this case, i am not sure they will add music playback to older devices. This feature require more than just software. You need special hardware ( some kind of soundcard) if you want to play music efficiently. In case bluetooth connected headphones, bluetooth chip need to support it. I am not sure if older devices has this required hardware. But i hope other (software) features will be backported.
For “older devices” I’m mostly thinking of my Race S, and my slight extension, the Race. While the Race S has a different optical sensor than the Race, I believe that from the OS viewpoint they have identical features? The Run removes the ability to have maps in favor of breadcrumbs (with only 4GB of storage, this makes sense), removes some sports modes going from 90+ to 30+ (which makes less sense to me, but whatever). For other older devices like the Vertical, I don’t know enough about them to judge at this moment.
My history before the Race S has been with Apple Watch, which has long had the ability to store music local on the device using wifi when on the charger and not needing a direct wired connection to a computer. The Race / Race S has bluetooth to connect to HRMs and cycling power meters, etc. so sending data to bluetooth headphones is not a large stretch. The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
I still think the intention is Run is the starting model, and the Race / Race S is the upgrade, and the two are siblings in the lineup, with the Run a subset (or the Race / Race S a superset) of functions. Then it may be the Vertical is intended as the sibling upgrade to the Race, but that’s less clear to me.
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@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
The Race / Race S has bluetooth to connect to HRMs and cycling power meters, etc. so sending data to bluetooth headphones is not a large stretch. The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
That’s not how it works. MUSIC (files) is sent to the watch, and only then SOUND is computed and sent from the watch to the headphones. With the right hardware, the mentioned sound card and the right Bluetooth module, which supports sending relatively good quality sound.
Likewise, there will be no sound in headphones connected to the server that do not have software multimedia support and a sound card/chip/module.
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@Tomas5 said in Expected software update support length?:
This feature require more than just software
Yes, I’m rather certain that doing pure emulation on these slow hardwares would give substantially suboptimal results. And can the Bluetooth Low Energy keep connections to a HR sensor, a phone AND earbuds at the same time without extra chips?
Grarmin’s first locally stored music watch, the FR645 Music, came 2018 (rather late compared to other large manufacturers). It did not have maps, only breadcrumbs:
My Fenix5X (with maps) came the year before, summer 2017, and despite being a ‘flagship’ watch never received any local music capabilities. That was saved for the Fenix 5 Plus, launched in the same timeframe as the FR645/Music, ie. 2018.
@raven
Suunto watches use WIFI to bring home the maps, the App involvement is purely as a command centre. But anyways, I still believe the Suunto Run HW-wise has enough differences that the older watches can’t be brought to the same level in this specific area; local music. -
@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
I am afraid that device (watch) must support A2DP protocol for sending music and this is software feature, but at same time it needs to support codecs to encode music for transfer. And i am not sure if this can be done with so low power cpu without specific hardware. But i can be wrong here. Maybe there is way around this how to make it possible. Suunto probably use “off the shelf” components so maybe there are already this features included in hardware and they just didn’t use it for now.
