Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical

Brad_Olwin

@trailcafe No. here for work and a very short visit.

Brad_Olwin

@Ilya-Sul said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

I’ve shelved the Vertical for now, as I find it too unreliable. It also gives me the chance to let it drain completely for once.

This should not be happening. I did not have a single crash on your firmware version and that included a 34h race. Please send logs to Suunto immediately after a crash and PM me with Suunto app username and time/date logs were sent

Brad_Olwin

@André-Faria said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@Brad_Olwin said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@Sascha-Domres I have tested this in six different regions so far in the US and will test in Europe next week. So, I think somewhat isolated but clearly some regions or some type of watch usage is an issue.

Or yours is the one that works hehe

I have 2 Verticals. Neither have serious issues but one is older hardware and has some problems specifically related to the hardware. However, no crashing or map issues.

@Brad_Olwin said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

one is older hardware

I’m sorry, just curious, what do you mean by “older hardware”?

Brad_Olwin

@Dan-Cantir Prior to release.

fluca

@Brad_Olwin I mean, I owns a S9PP which was seriously buggy (and it is yet), I’ve owned a SV form 1 month and it was buggy for some (not for me) at release. I have been with suunto since 2014. Since then, at release, suunto whatches just used work. Now we have a dedicated tread for bugs.
We also have a (kind of) beta program to see if the software is good enough to be released in production. This is all new for suunto and similar to what garmin does.
Something has shifted. I am not saying is necessarily bad. I am not saying it is suunto fault.
To stay in business, you have to play that business’ rules. In this business Garmin has 30% share, suunto in not listed. Garmin make rules, suunto follows.
This should not be taken as an offense. It is what it is.

Egika

@fluca to correct you:
I had a Suunto Spartan Copper back in 2015/1016 which resetted on me during a triathlon

The situation changes with more complexity. Like what car companies have gone through at the end of the last century. They dealt with it using HIL automated testing.

zhang965

@fluca said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

Brad_Olwin I mean, I owns a S9PP which was seriously buggy (and it is yet), I’ve owned a SV form 1 month and it was buggy for some (not for me) at release. I have been with suunto since 2014. Since then, at release, suunto whatches just used work. Now we have a dedicated tread for bugs.
We also have a (kind of) beta program to see if the software is good enough to be released in production. This is all new for suunto and similar to what garmin does.
Something has shifted. I am not saying is necessarily bad. I am not saying it is suunto fault.
To stay in business, you have to play that business’ rules. In this business Garmin has 30% share, suunto in not listed. Garmin make rules, suunto follows.
This should not be taken as an offense. It is what it is.

Come on dude, it’s just a watch, take easy.

I’m very happy with vertical now, I don’t use s+ app, don’t use map, don’t use OHR. It can perfectly run without any issue for a 10k run.

@zhang965 said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@fluca said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

Brad_Olwin I mean, I owns a S9PP which was seriously buggy (and it is yet), I’ve owned a SV form 1 month and it was buggy for some (not for me) at release. I have been with suunto since 2014. Since then, at release, suunto whatches just used work. Now we have a dedicated tread for bugs.
We also have a (kind of) beta program to see if the software is good enough to be released in production. This is all new for suunto and similar to what garmin does.
Something has shifted. I am not saying is necessarily bad. I am not saying it is suunto fault.
To stay in business, you have to play that business’ rules. In this business Garmin has 30% share, suunto in not listed. Garmin make rules, suunto follows.
This should not be taken as an offense. It is what it is.

Come on dude, it’s just a watch, take easy.

I’m very happy with vertical now, I don’t use s+ app, don’t use map, don’t use OHR. It can perfectly run without any issue for a 10k run.

Finally you got that ambit back!
Sorry couldn’t resist!
Enjoy your watch outdoors.

zhang965

@André-Faria said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@zhang965 said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@fluca said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

Brad_Olwin I mean, I owns a S9PP which was seriously buggy (and it is yet), I’ve owned a SV form 1 month and it was buggy for some (not for me) at release. I have been with suunto since 2014. Since then, at release, suunto whatches just used work. Now we have a dedicated tread for bugs.
We also have a (kind of) beta program to see if the software is good enough to be released in production. This is all new for suunto and similar to what garmin does.
Something has shifted. I am not saying is necessarily bad. I am not saying it is suunto fault.
To stay in business, you have to play that business’ rules. In this business Garmin has 30% share, suunto in not listed. Garmin make rules, suunto follows.
This should not be taken as an offense. It is what it is.

Come on dude, it’s just a watch, take easy.

I’m very happy with vertical now, I don’t use s+ app, don’t use map, don’t use OHR. It can perfectly run without any issue for a 10k run.

Finally you got that ambit back!
Sorry couldn’t resist!
Enjoy your watch outdoors.

No, vertical cannot be ambit, vertical has no recovery test.

Egika

@zhang965 maybe it will get some recovery metric with the next update?

zhang965

@Egika said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@zhang965 maybe it will get some recovery metric with the next update?

Yes, maybe it will not crash with the next update.

Egika

@zhang965 has your Vertical crashed?

zhang965

@Egika said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@zhang965 has your Vertical crashed?

Once

Egika

@zhang965 said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@Egika said in Conclusions about the Suunto Vertical:

@zhang965 has your Vertical crashed?

Once

EzioAuditore

@Egika Mine 4 times and every training another bug plagues it Contacting @isazi now.

Tieutieu

I still don’t get why some have so many crashes/bugs and some don’t.
Been intensivly using my Vertical since it was released (more than 120 hours, 1000km for 80 different activities), maps always on, apps (climb, weather, safe), structured workouts…and not a single crash.
I only had one soft reset the first week, and the no maps problem was solved by stopping/restarting the watch once.
Problably like every softwares there are particular use combinations that lead to bugs or crashes…

EzioAuditore

@Egika About increasing complexity of watches and things they offer I agree the more complex the more bugs. BUT: I consider myself tech geek and have owned or still own watches from different companies. My main drivers though always being Suunto (except for 2 years with the Fenix 6X). I had garmin, polar and still have apple 8.

Used all of them quite heavily and the experience so far:

Suunto: 6 crashes mid activity (2 with the Baro, 4 with the SV and I guess I will still have since the support has been not helpful at all). There is literally no session without issue on the SV (no matter how much I loved the watch and take care of it its been a painful relation, I am now being asked when we run in a group if I still have not crashed mid activity!?)
Garmin: Fenix 6XSS - 0 crashes, 2 very annoying ‘bugs’: HR during hiking (used some custom HR profile that was fixed only after a year or so and the instant pace - never fixed but with the release of 7 and much better gps (dual band) it has been solved)
Polar: Vantage V - 0 crashes, couple of annoying bugs here and there but nothing too terrible (my wife still uses it)
Apple: Watch 8 - 0 crashes being using it in parallel with my Baro and now SV and have not had a single issue with it. The only annoyance if you ignore the fact of charging every 1,5 - 2 days is the count down of starting an activity and no clear indication of GPS status in the beginning, making the watch always measure ~100m less in the overall length. But that is fixed on versions 10 as far as I’ve seen.

So as you can see the complexity does not really reflect the stability. While my Ambit 2 was tank, the recent watches are not (SW wise). The main goal of sport watch is to track the activity and if this is problematic then even the rest is useless. Just my cup of tea of course cause apparently there are also people that had never had problems with the watch. So either I am asking a lot from my watch either the others are just starting stopping activity with no additional sensors, apps and whatever. Or there might be some HW stuff too I do not know.

Cheers!

surfboomerang

@Tieutieu I have exactly the same experience. Everything is on and used and never a crash.
I do have the huge battery drain when S+ apps are active, but that one is already acknowledged by Suunto.

Btw… I also never had a crash with the S9B and S9P.

Łukasz Szmigiel · S9PP 2.37.48

@Hristijan-Petreski I suspect that Suunto’s recent change of operations (since being acquired by Liesheng) and the release of 9PP and SV with new interface caught them lagging with firmware department and testing. It’s simply too much, being done too quickly, and the current modus operandi with a small group of field testers is no longer a viable option.

New interface, plenty of memory, new hardware, tighter integration with SA via S+ - this is all complex stuff that’s new and is sitting on top of “previous” firmware.

2.22.58 for 9PP was released on 25.10.2022 and the FW the watch was shipped with was poor to the point that there were untranslated strings in the interface. 2.22.58 was beta at best (although stable).

2.27.8 is well… A beta released to the public after a week. 8 months after 2.22.58 with some old bugs still present and introducing new ones.

I mean - the update is good. The watch is more optimized, works faster, has more features, but the firmware quality in general is lagging behind the hardware.

Seeing that we’ve finally had a beta release and S+ apps are being updated regardless of watch firmware, it looks that something will change, and we’ll be getting more stable firmware with a wide group of beta testers to aid in polishing some hard to reproduce bugs.

I really understand that there’s plenty of work to do behind the scenes as the firmware is growing, but the company should act accordingly. This is the current state of things, not only in consumer electronics, but also things like automotive. Good software is the key to getting as much as possible from the hardware.