One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad

ChrisA

@Olaf-Gottschalk I can understand you frustration. Products should work, not causing trouble and I think you’re doing the right thing by pointing the finger on those things. Since you don’t got valuable feedback from the companies (be it Polar or Suunto), I hope the forum here can make your experience with the Race more satisfying

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
No i agree with you I wouldn’t stick with a company like that either; and part of reason why I queried as you seemed to like what polar offered, they have a new product - but weren’t interested in it.
In fact have stopped using companies/products for similar reasons and never returned - plus I am not shy in stating why I don’t use them/their products either.

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
he pretty much does - per the piece I quoted, and as at least one other in this thread agrees. Highlighted wahoo - as don’t they make the kicker and isn’t that what you were complaining about in terms of connectivity with it and other sensors. This was your complaint - I did struggle to read and make sense of that - but maybe I misunderstood your point 4. The whole phrase in the " " (qoutation marks) is a quote from DC Rainmakers review. It is him stating it not me - and its him suggesting not to use wahoo due to its limitations and suunto’s limitations, whereas garmin devices due to their connectivity options can get around the suunto limitations. I only highlighted that part of the quote to make it stand out (perhaps I should have highlighted the whole quote to make it easier to see I was quoting Ray).

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
Use Suunto instead of Komoot - maybe because that would solve your route issues. When I have used suunto routes in the past (and maybe its changed - its been a while) I never had any issues with turn instructions.

And while I am now on garmin often when pulling in a course from an alternative platform you sometimes have to run it thorugh the garmin course builder to make sure than TBT is turned on and it then also seems to do a better job in ensuring the turns come up properly. When not doing so I have come across issues, in particular when running courses pulled from Komoot. So might be more of a Komoot issue than a suunto/garmin issue. You could at least try and see if that resolves your TBT issues - if it does then can at least work with suunto/komoot to help resolve the issue. Or not - your choice.

Tieutieu

@Jamie-BG This thread is - to my mind - a bit “over-reacting” thread. That is more often the case recently on this forum. But that’s my point of vue, and it is not a judgement of any kind.

Considering the 5 points that are discussed here :

1/nofications. Answers have been done. Ok maybe not totally satisfaying and need to evolve…
2/emojis. well…For sure suunto’s watches are first of all sports and adventure watches…not “smartwatches at first”. But ok, that’s a little point for those who care. But I’m sorry, I don’t understand how it makes the SR unusable.
3/sleep tracking…works fine for most users…(title is “one weekend and I’m sad…”, but "sleep tracking doesnt work most of time ?!!)
4/Sensors : ok no identification and it could/must get better…But come on, who appairs a sensor just in the middle of the crowd before a race ?
5/ turn by turn : I keep telling that 100m alert before next turn is the way it works.

If those points are more important and go over everything else that is great with SR :

for sure @Olaf-Gottschalk should maybe return is watch
for sure with any other brand he’ll find annoying things with any watch model

Anyway, I’m sure everyone here has and will help as much as they can. Me included.
But we can’t change : people’s buying behaviours and reactions to some feature’s lack or bugs.

wmichi

@BrunoH Well I think everything is still civilised here. To me it seems more people are using Suunto watches. And it will be even more thanks to the Race. But that’s also a reason why more unsatisfied customers might find their way into this forum. Everybody just has to deal with this. As long as it stays civilised

Sorry, when I misunderstood you. Actually I meant you said early adopters are stupid. But what would you do without early adopters doing the baby steps? The only real solution is, that companies return to releasing finished and well tested products. We as customers cannot stop to demand this. See it this way: this could be a standout feature of Suunto

There are quite a view posts where somebody complains about complainers, and for them it seems everything always works perfectly fine, for example sleep tracking. I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”. This algorithm stuff is highly individual just like OHR. And this is Suunto first take on their own implementation. It’s super important to have critical voices pointing problems out. Yes, I am more patient. I don’t care if some people “scream” their opinions. Let them scream. If I don’t want this, I don’t read it. And just by saying that this or that feature is crap doesn’t mean the whole product is crap (it is definitely not!).

Regarding sustainability: I would argue that nearly everyone who buys every year a new watch (or even more often, because the eternal search for the perfect device does never end for some people) sells the old one second hand.

ChrisA

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

And saying ‘Suunto broke the Race (again)’ because it doesn’t work for one person is the same thing, just the other way around .

I think it’s this way of ‘black and white painting’ (to stress a German phrase) thats’s not the style, communication usually takes place in this forum - at least that’s my impression. I always saw people here discussing problems in a more sensible, intelligent and rational matter, trying to find solutions or at least workarounds and not so much raging about the product or even the company.

Tieutieu

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:
I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

I wrote that. I totally agree with you about OHR comparison in terms accuracy ; for now no sensor or algorythm works perfeclty on everyone.
My sleeping tracking works fine most of the time. Sometimes, it doesn’t. I’m off course not a “reference” and don’t own the “truth”…But in the same time it is not because few people complain about it that it doesn’t works.

Some metrics that our watches record make sens as “instant mesures” (of course distance, instant speed, activity HR… - that’s why I use chest strap instead of OHR for high intensity exercices).

But about training load, sleep, rest and recovery, we should not forget that it is a “long term” tendancy that makes sens.
That also why suunto coach uses 6 weeks tendancy to provide analyses.

So my point is : telling sleep tracking, or HRV…is not always “totally accurate”, it is not the main point.

wmichi

@ChrisA You are absolutely right. That’s what I wanted to say. It’s neither flawless nor a total fail. It is actually faaaar away from a total fail. Whatever issues I have currently with the Race, they seem pretty minor and easily fixable to me (ok, this might be naive. I am just a web dev not a firmware dev). Really those baby steps, @BrunoH mentioned.

I think you cannot say this about the Vantage V3 in its current state (constantly restarting), at least if DC Rainmaker is correct.

As an Austrian I know this German phrase Did I paint black and white? I hope not, that was not my intent. Actually the exact opposite. I find all those discussions interesting.

wmichi

@Tieutieu And I am also not a reference, just one data point where it’s not working so good. We are both right.

You are right, the trends are important. One night tells me nothing meaningful. But if out of 10 nights it’s 9 times off by 2 to 4 hours, also the trends are wrong. On the other hand: Suunto reports every night the exact same HRV value as Oura . Of course I could just look at Oura and forget Suunto for sleep tracking. But to be honest I’d rather have one device (the Race) and sell the Oura (subscription). I am sure Suunto keeps working on their sleep tracking. Hopefully they don’t break it for others, when they make changes.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Tieutieu said in [One weekend and several …

I’ll let Race users confirm then. Please try again sometimes, It should work so.

I did like 6 or 7 hikes last week, all planned on Komoot, it never worked like this. But of course, I will again “test” it as this is my usual thing when running/hiking/cycling!

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk maybe try one planned directly with Suunto App to see if you have a different behavior

ChrisA

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

. I find all those discussions interesting

sartoric

@Mauerwegler
Well, maybe I’m misreading his messages, but it doesn’t look “happy” to me, about his watch.

Anyway, you can keep debating, no problem.
I was just pointing out that there’s no reason to use something that doesn’t fit your needs and frustrates you.

David l

@BrunoH said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@ChrisA … and what bothers me is the amount of people who seem to have bought an expensive piece of equipment (should be an investment for years to come) on a whim without proper research. More money than common sense? And then every feature that hasn’t been implemented exactly according to their liking is absolutely wrong. Then comes the inevitable why. WHY hasn’t Suunto fixed MY problems yet 'cause it would be so easy…

It took me weeks to follow up Vertical’s first baby steps before I made up my mind. I knew what I was getting and nothing came as surprise.

OK, I’ll go back hibernating. Wake me up when the upgrade comes

I think the main issue with this is that we’ve come from Garmin or Apple where everything is available and we have been spoilt by it. Even the garmins that cost less than the SR have the hardware and software to achieve this.

That’s why there is disappointment in the newer Suunto users.

On the plus side, I’m really enjoying the SR despite a few ‘issues’!

Olaf Gottschalk

@David-l said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

I think the main issue with this is that we’ve come from Garmin or Apple where everything is available and we have been spoilt by it. Even the garmins that cost less than the SR have the hardware and software to achieve this.

In my concrete case, I came from Polar - and needed to escape constant crashes of my Grit X Pro. (Have a look at the current reviews of the V3 - this is exactly what happened to me for over one year!)

I am absolutely aware of the fact that Suunto is NOT like Garmin or Apple and it was a very deliberate choice to NOT go for Garmin. I simply think their UI both on watches as well as their App is terrible and I don’t need their thousands of features.

This was my point of view.

What I expected was a “similar” experience, clean interface and not feature overkill. Which is mostly what I got - and I love it.

What I did not expect is trivial things missing like pairing more than one bike sensor or routing being so unacceptable in terms of too early hints and not displaying the “Now” hints and blocking the map completely when you most likely need to see it.
This is easy to spot and change when developing a device. So I hope that this will be fixed by Suunto.

My first impression of the official support of Suunto is also … a very mixed bag. On Facebook messenger they did not even understand my “pair more than one bike sensor”… crazy.

Mauerwegler

@Olaf-Gottschalk said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

What I expected was a “similar” experience, clean interface and not feature overkill. Which is mostly what I got - and I love it.

@sartoric: See, he is 90 % happy as I suspected.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Mauerwegler Absolutely. I am. But that makes me even more sad because the “missing bits” are relatively small and I wonder whether Suunto is actually able and/or willing to update this.

Yesterday’s full review of DC Rainmaker stated that also VERY clear:

it is NOT 2023 to offer such a primitive connectivity section with ONE sensor per type AND no IDs visible. Apparently Suunto has done this for many years and so I wonder: is is worth waiting for this to change?
it is NOT 2023 to ignore Emojis. They pop up everywhere and a notification not showing a reaction forces you to grab your phone which is … lame.

I am SO happy with a clean look, sturdy build and NOT overblown Garmin stuff, but these things… sigh

David l

@Olaf-Gottschalk I think you’re right is respect of what audience/market is Suunto actually targeting. It feels like they want the more general market, and if so, they need to look at what they offer as they won’t succeed.

But, apart from countdown on intervals and the obligatory Pr barcode, I’m really happy with the watch when compared to my Epix Pro. Even the HR is fine for me as I only use it as a guide and have a strap if I need to have more accuracy.

It a lot easier and simple to use, creating the workouts are really straight forward and the mapping is pretty good. I know someone was moaning about the directions but, as DC said, just need to tick the box.

wmichi

@David-l I remember when I had the Suunto Spartan Sport, that the watch felt far too basic for the price point. Today the picture is totally different. Suunto added a lot of features since then, but they are still easy to use. That’s a big accomplishment. You cannot say this about Garmin

Regarding UX Suuntos are just very well done (the sport side and general UI, not the smartwatch things). And the little annoying pieces like sensor management will be updated sooner or later. The less those pieces are important for the target audience, the later, of course