Suunto Plus apps

isazi

@olaffen but you get actual info during the repeat, and a summary only during rest, right?

el2thek

@isazi if it does show actual it must take some time for it to process. When I did hill reps last week the value it showed at the end of each repeat rougly corresponds with the average value in the app. Before that the ngp was higher, much higher at the start.

olaffen

@isazi I tried stopping completely during an interval and the NGP did not reflect that, while the regular pace on another view showed that I was standing still. That’s why I assumed it was an average. I will check some more.

olaffen

Tried it again now. And it seems there is something off. During an interval the NGP is very slow to respond to either actual pace or grade, while the response is much faster during rest. Anyone else having similar issues?

el2thek

@olaffen did you stop again during the interval? Did the ngp completely drop?

Frederick Rochette

@olaffen yes same for me. NGP is not reliable at all

isazi

I am asking the developers. Stay tuned.

isazi

So the NGP field should be instant, not average. If you don’t see it responding, something’s wrong with that. I’ll let you know what I hear. Probably after the weekend.

olaffen

@isazi Thanks! Then it should work as I had hoped. Looking forward to hear more.

Łukasz Szmigiel · S9PP 2.40.44

S+ climb on S9PP is missing a translation string on auto lap summary (polish).

olaffen

@isazi Any updates?

isazi

@olaffen I asked some people and for them is working, I am waiting for more comments.

olaffen

@isazi I will test some more then and see if I can manage to get it to work.

isazi

@olaffen I would test it too, but my only hill is 12 meters tall and not very representative of real hills. I’m going there during the weekend, though.

el2thek

@isazi said in Suunto Plus apps:

So the NGP field should be instant, not average. If you don’t see it responding, something’s wrong with that. I’ll let you know what I hear. Probably after the weekend.

Tested it just now. For me (9 baro) there at least seems to be a delay. At the bottom of each hill my pace was about 6 min/km. The NGP started at 7+ min/km and then took about a minute to get under the pace I was running. Average hill interval NGP afterwards was 4.58 min/km.

The same us true for the rest. After each hill it’s fairly flat and I walked for about 30-40 seconds. Pace was about 10 min/km. At the start of the rest NGP was around 4 min/km. When I started running again about 7 min/km. At least faster than I was walking.

Frederick Rochette

@el2thek yes there is a bug, I also tested today ond it’s not NGP but the exactly the current pace…

fluca

@olaffen Hi You are right, NGP is an average by Design. Somewhere it averages data and elevate at the 4th power if I remeber well. So you are right and it’s not a bug.

freeheeler

@fluca
I’m not sure if it is avg over the ascent lap. when I tested it, I could not look constantly on the watch, but I notice it was reactive and not “stuck”. could it be that the value is smoothened over a certain time to avoid jumping numbers?

olaffen

I have reset my watch and removed the app and added it again, and tested it some more. I have deliberately varied the pace during one lap, even to a complete halt. The NGP field during the interval responds slowly. After I stop completely, while keeping the interval going, the pace slowly goes down. After standing still for as long as I first ran, the NGP has slowed to half of its value when I stopped. This makes me think it is an average of the entire interval.

I am aware of the exponential averaging in the NGP formula, but I would think an “instant” NGP would respond similarly to the NGP in the Climb app or the TrainingPeaks Running Pace app. But this is not the case for me.

During the rest period, the NGP field, which I understand should be the average NGP of the previous interval, changes as I change my pace and responds almost instantly. This makes me think there is a mixup. How does the NGP behave in rest mode for others?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

There is a huge problem mathematically on realtime to show a good instant ngp.

The reason is that you need time and a moving window to detect a proper grade.

Having implementing the Gap on QS with the guy from elevate for Strava I am quite familiar with the problem.

Ngp should be 10s - 30s buffered to show some valuable info for the user. That is because the altitude variations influence a lot the pace.

I am not speaking on behalf of Suunto , in this one at least but from personal experience.

If you want to think about it , take your data and try to calculate the instant (0.5s to 1s grade).

Imo from what I have used suuntos ngap for me works more than fine. The purpose of realtime ngap is to give you a better feeling , not for doing intervals of 30s etc.

Ideally an average of 1minute for me would be great.