One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad

Olaf Gottschalk

@BrunoH I had to get a new watch. And well, the things I found - the bugs and the missing features, are really quite sad because they could easily be changed.

Mauerwegler

@Marius-Jacobsen-Eggerud said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@BrunoH But here Suunto needs to update their manual because it tell you to use your minimum HR.

Exactly my point in another thread I link to below. No one should have to search this forum for basic stuff like that and it does not help the average user that this is common sense in this forum. I only joined this forum when my SSU hung up with the „arrow down“ screen after four years of trouble-free usage. While this forum is very useful and friendly, one should not expect the average user to lurk here. Users should manage to set the right „minimum“ heart rate without this forum.

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk About “turn by turn” navigation (wether you’ve used komoot or suunto route planification), you should have a reminder 100m before your next turn. That’s the way it works with my SV (and with every other suunto’s watches that support turn by turn). Should be the same with the Race. But perhaps you missed it ?
And then at the turn it tells you next point (ok this is the wierd behaviour of sunnto’s turn by turn that has been discussed many times).

(I personnaly don’t use turn by turn anymore, or very rarely, since the maps where introduced with SV ; I’ve tried komoot few times but find Suunto’s route planner with heatmap much more convenient, also because there is more freedom to add/remove turnbyturn waypoints. I uselly keep only few important turns => the 100m before turn works well).

Egika

@Olaf-Gottschalk said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Egika Well, it is not true. You cannot silence the notifications without silencing everything.

come on. Your initial complaint was “Smartwatch Notifications are either OFF (DND mode) or loud and beepy, but cannot be silenced to only vibrate.”
I told you that you actually can have them vibrate only. No way to know you probably wanted something else.
If you actually wanted to comment on something else, that’s fine, but if this happens in your mind and not in writing, it is difficult to answer. Just don’t tell me my information answering to your initial statement is wrong. Taking a discussion sideways is never helpful.

As for the resting vs minimum HR - the manual does not tell anything about this. So, I would say, Suunto has some editing and explaining to do.

Yes. known. That is what this forum is about. Users helping users. I tried to help here by explaining how it can work well.
If you came here to vent and are not interested in solutions, that’s fine as well. Just let the other users know and we won’t try to contribute.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Olaf-Gottschalk About “turn by turn” navigation (wether you’ve used komoot or suunto route planification), you should have a reminder 100m before your next turn. That’s the way it works with my SV (and with every other suunto’s watches that support turn by turn). Should be the same with the Race. But perhaps you missed it ?
And then at the turn it tells you next point (ok this is the wierd behaviour of sunnto’s turn by turn that has been discussed many times).

Nope. Sadly not. It tells you about the next point immediately, no matter whether it is in 2km or 100m away and then never again. When you are AT the point, it shows you the next turn point, which is bad because it covers the complete screen with this information exactly at the moment where you look at the watch because it notifies you…

Olaf Gottschalk

@Egika ???
I said I want smartphone notifications to be silent. That’s it. Your “solution” is ALSO silencing everything which is of course nonsense. When I am in a training, I want to hear what’s going on, when I am in the office, I want to not have everybody in the room know I got mails… easy, hu?

wmichi

@Olaf-Gottschalk Some of your points are Race specific, others apply to all Suunto watches.

For me sleep tracking is also completely off in most nights. For others it seems to work perfectly. Suunto should investigate this. I mean, it’s a new algorithm, of course there are optimisations possible. Or does the watch need some time to “know” the user? And the thing with min/resting hr just needs an updated documentation (that will be updated, I am sure)
Yes, the sensor management is crap. DC Rainmaker always points this out in his reviews. In 2023 this is just outdated.
I never understood why I get at a notification at a crossing about the next turn, which can be kilometres away. When I need to turn right, the watch needs to say “turn right NOW”. The following turn is of no interest at the current turn (my opinion). The notification that comes 100m before the next turn is enough (it should be there, haven’t tested yet with the Race). Whoever I ask, this is what people expect. And now that we have maps, the fullscreen notification no longer makes sense in my opinion. Displaying it at the bottom 1/3 of the screen would be better. This way we wouldn’t loose the context of the map.

I guess with the next firmware update coming this November a lot of the issues will be fixed. Of course not all.

Generally I would not trust reviews on Youtube. They usually just scratch the surface and they only test devices regarding their own use case (mostly running, cycling), use it for too little time, are biased or simply paid.

Despite the downsides, I still like the Race and like training with it. As long as it doesn’t restart during training Being an early adopter is risky.

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk there is no reason that you would not have the “100m before next turn alert”, it is the standard turn by turn behaviour. Unless the Race works differently than every other suunto watches…but I don’t think it is the case…

(@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:
The notification that comes 100m before the next turn is enough (it should be there, haven’t tested yet with the Race)

wmichi

@Olaf-Gottschalk I have read a couple of times in this forum that setting resting HR about 10 bpm higher as the minimum HR gives good results. At least for resources, maybe also for sleep. This doesn’t sound very scientific (more like trial and error). But if it works…

I have learned that resting HR is the lowest HR during the day at rest and awake. Usually this is the HR directly after waking up in the morning.

Likarnik

@Egika said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

What does the HR have to do with detecting whether I sleep? Please explain. How does it help me if it nails it for you?

Also answered below. The watch has two kind of information to detect if you are sleeping. It has no eyes to watch you. It can measure movement of the watch and heart rate.
So sleep detection needs to take this data and decide if you are awake or sleeping. Movement alone won’t do the job, as sitting still and like watching a movie would be misleading.
HR is the major factor. The watch seems to need a little help telling it who you are, by setting the resting heart rate.
As outlined and discussed quite many times in recent days, it is not the minimum, but the actual resting HR. So sit down, breathe slowly, don’t think of too many things and get your reading for this value. Setting the value a little higher don’t hurt.
Then have the watch detect your sleep

Hmmm, but when I am drunk or after an ultra trail my HR does not drop bellow my resting HR at all and my avg HR during sleep is around 15bpm higher than normal - my sleep times are still ok (S9B, S9P and now SV). Just curious…

General_Witt

@Olaf-Gottschalk Hi!

1 - You can set notifications to vibrate only in a specific menu of the watch
2 - We can only hope in a future update about emojis
3 - Sleep tracking has been very accurate with me so far. Sleep time, naps, nights where I wake up a couple times for the bathroom and then sleep again. I’ve read it is very important that you set the rest hear rate correctly to track your sleep accurately. Try changing it with the minimum heart rate in the last 12 hours in the morning as the Suunto manual suggests
5 - With visual maps on the watch I just turned navigation notifications off. Especially in a hike you won’t need them, just look at the map on your watch when you approach a crossroad

ChrisA

@Olaf-Gottschalk said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

Why does nobody ever talk about basic things like this?

I don’t really exactly understand why are you asking this in the Suunto forum? Wouldn’t be the tech bloggers channel the right place? And while it’s understandable that if someone isn’t satisfied with a product, one tries to find solutions and - if there are none - even returns the product and of course that can be a disappointing experience, but I see more and more posts here are from people who just seem to ‘dump / unload’ their emotional dissatisfaction here. You will for sure get a lot of help here in the forum from nice people, if you want. If you just want to complain, that’s ok too and you have all the right to do so, if you’re not satisfied with a product, but I found a lot of my problems and questions I had, when first using a Suunto answered by the people in this forum.

matthinsh

@ChrisA Brilliantly put.

BrunoH

@ChrisA … and what bothers me is the amount of people who seem to have bought an expensive piece of equipment (should be an investment for years to come) on a whim without proper research. More money than common sense? And then every feature that hasn’t been implemented exactly according to their liking is absolutely wrong. Then comes the inevitable why. WHY hasn’t Suunto fixed MY problems yet 'cause it would be so easy…

It took me weeks to follow up Vertical’s first baby steps before I made up my mind. I knew what I was getting and nothing came as surprise.

OK, I’ll go back hibernating. Wake me up when the upgrade comes

Olaf Gottschalk

@ChrisA said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

I don’t really exactly understand why are you asking this in the Suunto forum? Wouldn’t be the tech bloggers channel the right place? And while it’s understandable that if someone isn’t satisfied with a product, one tries to find solutions and - if there are none - even returns the product and of course that can be a disappointing experience, but I see more and more posts here are from people who just seem to ‘dump / unload’ their emotional dissatisfaction here. You will for sure get a lot of help here in the forum from nice people, if you want. If you just want to complain, that’s ok too and you have all the right to do so, if you’re not satisfied with a product, but I found a lot of my problems and questions I had, when first using a Suunto answered by the people in this forum.

You’re absolutely right. The forum might not be the correct place. Sorry for that.
I just hoped that long time Suunto users here are also in active contact to Suunto and that Suunto also is active here. That might not be the case, which would be a bummer.

So, WHY I buy a product and complain? Because I couldn’t believe how many simple things from a dev standpoint are still open and missed. If I were responsible for a product, I can guarantee you, my watch would support emojis in 2023… my watch’s bluetooth menu would show the ID of connected devices. This is by no means in any way difficult or impossible to program.
Yes, I am frustrated because this world is full of crappy products. I have been deeply disappointed by Polar for over a year due to mid activity crashes with total loss. They did not care at all. I did not want to support Garmin for their “millions of devices strategy” and really ugly and outdated app. So, there is not much to go to. Suunto or Coros is basically it. And as the Race is really a beautiful watch with potential, I went for it, not allowing any thoughts that somebody could actually bake in such illogical limitations.
If companies like Suunto had me as a tester, it would take me one week to tell them how to make their product a LOT better.

Another finding after just 2 weeks… Suunto’s support is not a whole lot better than Polar’s. They take more than a week to answer an email and don’t get the question right - their answer is merely a link to some documentation which has nothing to do with the problem. Asking on Facebook messenger gives me even more stupid answers from people who do not understand a question like “why can’t I pair two bike sensors” and answer with “Smart bikes are not compatible”… LOL

Olaf Gottschalk

@General_Witt said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Hi!

1 - You can set notifications to vibrate only in a specific menu of the watch

As far as I know this does not only affect smartphone notifications, but also ALL tones. This is not what is needed.

2 - We can only hope in a future update about emojis

Polar’s Vantage V in 2018 also started without Emojis and they fixed that in an update… it’s been 5 years since then. Everybody uses them, lots of answers to yes/no questions are simply thumbs up or down. It is not in any way understandable to NOT support them.

3 - Sleep tracking has been very accurate with me so far. Sleep time, naps, nights where I wake up a couple times for the bathroom and then sleep again. I’ve read it is very important that you set the rest hear rate correctly to track your sleep accurately. Try changing it with the minimum heart rate in the last 12 hours in the morning as the Suunto manual suggests

I am trying this now. Let’s see how it behaves then! It is a bummer they did not put “Rest HR” into the sleep setting’s menu AND point out this is NOT min HR.

5 - With visual maps on the watch I just turned navigation notifications off. Especially in a hike you won’t need them, just look at the map on your watch when you approach a crossroad

Well, no. I cannot really agree here. The trails I mostly do have barely visible paths that go off the “main” roads. Easy to miss and the off route info comes really a tad to late for that.
I do not understand how hard it is to follow a simple pattern/logic: a route is a set of waypoints with instructions. For hiking/running activities notify 100m or maybe 200m before the point about it and its text (“in 100m turn …”) and then AT exactly the point notify with “NOW …”. For biking, maybe a larger distance would be feasable. But those are simple values you can test around with. The current implementation tells you only once what to do next, even if “next” is in 100km! This is just… stupid.

Mauerwegler

@BrunoH said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@ChrisA … and what bothers me is the amount of people who seem to have bought an expensive piece of equipment (should be an investment for years to come) on a whim without proper research.

I‘ll try to put myself in such a person:

Well, Suunto has (or had) the reputation that the watches have less features than some competitors, but those are well implemented. Also known is the build quality. So I understand that there are people who think that if there is a vendor who will not disappoint them it is most likely Suunto.
I think Olaf might just be stymied that „the glass is not only half full, it is even 90 % full“, but then the devs made some decisions that were „thrown in as a first shot“ and never got polished (like show the ID of the paired sensor). He pointed them out to help achieve the last 10 %. Now it seems that different people‘s threshold of what is unacceptable and what is okay, just get on with it, varies largely. Remember that he is not asking for new features (besides pairing several sensors of the same type).

It took me weeks to follow up Vertical’s first baby steps before I made up my mind. I knew what I was getting and nothing came as surprise.

That is what I do at the moment, because I‘ve learned that with the SSU as well: not cheap and the initial FW had about half the features it has now.

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

wmichi

@BrunoH People “complain” here because it is a channel to reach Suunto. Here are people testing devices for Suunto and even people who work for Suunto. Of course users use this channel to communicate whatever they think could be improvements to the watches/app.

If it is our opinion, of course you can say pointing out bugs is just complaining in a negative way. I don’t see it like that. It’s valuable information. Some, maybe even most bugs will already be known, others not. And maybe there are workarounds other users can share. There are feature requests and questions because of confusing documentation (min hr/resting hr is a recent example). Also valuable information. To me this is not complaining but all just feedback for Suunto.

It’s just wrong to say people don’t have common sense (basically you say they are stupid), when they communicate that some features don’t work as expected. I would argue that most of this feedback is not just based on very few singular opinions. Like “I like the color pink, why is the background of the screen not always pink? We now have AMOLED! Make it pink!”. I think it’s one of the most challenging things when designing a product/software, to meet the expectations of a large user base of how things “should” work, that functionalities are easy to understand and somehow all of this also needs to look cool. That’s tough. But to make a product better, to be able to iterate, you NEED feedback. So I would say, the more complaints the better. But at the same time also the more happy people expressing themselves here the better. As I said: every feedback is valuable, even if some communicate it harshly.

Telling critical voices that they don’t have common sense would be the end of product development. I don’t work for Suunto, I don’t know anyone working at Suunto, but I am pretty sure this is not how people think at Suunto. Whatever you create, you have to handle critique. If you can’t, don’t create something other people should use. Just my opinion.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Tieutieu said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

I cannot tell you why, but this is not how it behaves here. Sadly. I would not complain if it was!

Suunto support also just noted it down and did not say that it should work like you describe…