Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update

DrSilverthorn

Not sure if this will help, but I switched out the stock band with a velcro one. The sleep tracking function still way underestimates my sleep, but at least now it tracks a couple of hours of sleep per night, which allows the watch to make a HRV estimate. This is an increase from the zero hours I was getting after the update. But like I said, the estimates are still way too low.

I’m also one of the people with a small wrist (6.5"), for whom the heart rate measurements when running are extremely inaccurate.

Mads Hintz-Madsen

@jannis you can view the average nightly heart rate for the last 8 weeks like shown below. I’m not sure if that is what you are looking for.

SuperFlo75

@Iggge for me, the statement of Suunto does not sound logical!

SuuntoR

@tiago @Iggge

So could Suunto (or their ambassadors) tell us the official way Suunto wants the rest HR to be set? Many here have done how on the forum has been advised and used rest HR “when doing nothing”, like first thing to measure when waking up. Is this the way to go “officially”, is the algorithm planned to work this way?

Or is it like the support also seems to have advised AND how it also says in the SR manual:

https://www.suunto.com/Support/Product-support/suunto_race/suunto_race/widgets/resources/

“TIP:
Use the lowest heart rate reading measured during your sleep as your Rest HR.”

E.g. Oura ring, Firstbeat are using the lowest heart rate when talking about rest hr. Apple I believe seems to show rest HR the other way “when doing nothing”…

So I don’t think there is a right or wrong way to measure this, BUT we would really need to know what Suunto wants us to put there, which way is best to their algorithm?

tiago

@SuuntoR when I contacted Suunto support they advise me to set my minimum HR higher than my actually resting heart rate. I always use the minimum when sleeping,2 years with Polar and 5 with Garmin always was that way,so for me resting heart rate is the minimum at sleeping . My minimum is between 47/49 and I set minimum HR at 60. I must say with the race works perfectly,the time I fall asleep and when I wake up, however I already contacted the support about this question,if they use pace and heart rate reserve to calculate vo² max,so 12 bpm I think it makes a difference in their equation to calculate my fitness. I’m waiting for a response to that but yes,for me set my minimum hr about 10 bpm higher solve the issue with sleep tracking

SuuntoR

@tiago

Yes I have heard also that Suunto support has advised to do so. And I did this also. For me it seems the sleep tracking was better when rest HR was minimum HR of the night. Thinking should I change it back or not it’s funny that e.g. @Iggge has had a different answer from Suunto than you. And also the manuals suggest to put minimum heart rate there… So little bit confused and thats why would like to hear Suuntos view once more, which one is it that supports their algorithm best.
And if it is like you have been told, update the manual also.

Also intresting point you have there, if this “resting heart rate” affects also some other numbers… for my level of sports it’s not needed a super detailed or accurate metrics to tell me how i have recovered or developing, i’m not a professional. But after all, the metrics are there, Suunto sells watches with these metrics and it’s a matter of 10-12 bpm difference… so would be nice to hear how these products should be used correctly.

Egika

As stated before in another thread:
Suunto devs told me that resting HR value is not used in the sleep tracking algos. It just does not appear in the formula.

SuuntoR

@Egika

Ok, thats new information to me (and it sounds also new information for quite many more Suunto users in this thread and also Suunto support)! Thank you, and thanks for actively answering our concerns here

Likarnik

I have my resting HR set to 45 and last night my min HR was 47 and still gained 65% resources and my sleep hours are correct. Maybe awake is a bit long (23min), but I had trouble setting in on couch in the middle of the night when my 2year old kicked me out of my bed I never had problems with sleep time, only once maybe. And only difference with new algo are higher resources and no stress

Mff73

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:

Just fyi to all here. This topic is tracked to improve the current solution.

So my ask is only to keep the scope and add any valuable feedback if possible.

Hi,
any clue of what could be a valuable feedback ? anything in particular to test or note ?
I think it is not useful to tell each morning how many awake hours we have which seems not right (i speak for myself only) ?
I have this night 1h33 awake time, while i am pretty sure to sleep well (still i was awake twice to just go the toilets and fall asleep surely quickly( not remembering waiting too much).
Any particular technical insight for suunto to “investigate” ?

SuuntoR

@Mff73

For me the biggest gaps between Suunto Race (I know im in a wrog thread but propably the same alghoritms) and Oura ring have been those “falling back to sleep” misses with suunto. For example if my son wakes me up in the early morning but we both fall back asleep, SR has quite often thought that I have started my day then. But SR did get a new update yesterday and at least this morning also SR understood that after picking up some milk to my son (so i stood up etc) and going back to sleep, I really fell asleep again. So only one night, but it seems promising with SR for me at least

Iggge

Did talk again with Suunto yesterday. Now they told my to set my HR higher, so I did
From 50 before to now 65. Same results. Sleep is 3 hours and 35 min when in reality I went to bed 2320, was asleep before midnight and then woke up at 0600.
However this night I had to go up to fetch some medicine to my daughter, and after that I went back to sleep at 0450. Took about 1 min and after that my watch thinks that that was morning for me and did not record any more sleep.
I’ll trybit again tonight to see if it works better

Likarnik

Are you guys pressing any buttons to check time during sleep hours?

Mff73

@Likarnik said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:

Are you guys pressing any buttons to check time during sleep hours?

yes, just the middle one, to activate backlight, not to fall in the night

Likarnik

@Mff73 can this be connected to wake hours? I use my phone to light my way to the WC Just food for thought…

Mff73

@Likarnik
it can for sure.
I checked deeper in my history, and i may now think that MY sleep tracking is just not good since i switched from S9PP to SV (mid May) and maybe finally not really linked to latest FW.

[Edit] and with S9PP i used also a middle button to backlight during awake times

Iggge

@Likarnik i am not pressing any buttons (what I am aware of)

jannis

@Mads-Hintz-Madsen thank you! Almost, as this is the average heart rate. I wish they would show the minimum heart rate for a longer time period than just the last 7 days.

SuperFlo75

@Likarnik I don‘t press any Button during the night, because I‘m afraid this could let the watch think I want to get up…

Mff73

No button press this night (i didn’t fall ), and 5h29 awaken time.
So, nothing new.
Next week i will try to sleep with SV + S9PP and see.