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    Sleep Tracking

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto 9 Peak
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    • ? Offline
      A Former User @Patrick Löffler
      last edited by

      @patrick-löffler I’d guess it has to do with FB algo licensing and firmware codebase sharing. S9P is effectively a smaller S9B, with a few sweet extras. So, it makes sense it would inherit the exact feature set of the bigger brother.

      Jamie BGJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Jamie BGJ Offline
        Jamie BG Bronze Member @Guest
        last edited by

        @nickk could also be hardware as the firstbeat stuff is all done on the watch and not on the servers…

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        • ? Offline
          A Former User @Jamie BG
          last edited by

          @jamie-bg Well, hardware doesn’t prevent S7 from having full sleep stages. And yes, I’m aware that S7 is running Qualcomm 3100 and not a custom processor found in the rest of Sx series.

          Still, the presence of full sleep stages analysis from FB in lower cost Garmin units would suggest it has less to do with silicon and more with what gets licensed and deployed to the watches.

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          • Jamie BGJ Offline
            Jamie BG Bronze Member @Guest
            last edited by

            @nickk Lower Garmin units do not use the advanced sleep tracking i.e. firstbeat sleep tracking, they use Garmin’s own inhouse sleep tracking, to which all reports I have seen suggest it isn’t nearly as good as the first beat sleep tracking.

            Can’t find any details on S9 CPU and memory, so no idea how it stacks up against the top end Garmin and S9 in terms of power and resources and or the 3100 qualcomm chip.

            ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
              last edited by

              While I don’t know I don’t see an issue s9P using FB algos. However I would personally prefer a better algo from Suunto or a better algo in general as FB is licensed

              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
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              • ? Offline
                A Former User @Jamie BG
                last edited by A Former User

                @jamie-bg This isn’t correct. By lower cost units I mean watches like Venu 2 and Venu Sq, which most definitely have onboard sleep tracking. As do (or should have it soon) entry level Forerunners. I think DCR was quoting Garmin in one of his recent reviews saying the onboard sleep analysis is coming out across their entire device line.

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                • ? Offline
                  A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                  last edited by A Former User

                  @dimitrios-kanellopoulos I think the only truly better algo that exists out there is Fitbit, and even that doesn’t really give you anywhere close to real sleep phases. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to match lab grade polysomnography with a watch on your wrist. But even if we could do that, then what? How can you make yourself have more REM or N2/N3 sleep?

                  It’s like those running dynamics metrics. Very cool in theory but hardly something you can consciously change.

                  I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years all this faux analysis go back to where it had started a while back: a graph of your sleep movement, sleep/awake tracking (the only thing watches get mostly right), and a general sleep quality score that would take into account many other components such as duration, regularity, restlessness, etc.

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                  • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                    Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                    last edited by

                    @nickk agreed.

                    Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
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                    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                      last edited by

                      @nickk however

                      This guy

                      https://twitter.com/BStulberg?s=09

                      Wisely says

                      Part of the reason that so many people are so tired is because they track so many things. If you are tracking your sleep, then, in a sense, you are working even when you are sleeping. Same goes for eating, taking steps, and so on. It is an utterly exhausting way to live.

                      But that is another case and maybe why I don’t give a dime about all this in a personal level.

                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
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                      • ? Offline
                        A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                        last edited by A Former User

                        @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…

                        I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.

                        I hope the pendulum swings back. It’s about time we collect less data but what we do collect is actually pertinent to our well being. Trying to deduce your brain waves from wrist movement, or overall recovery from a randomly chosen period to quickly measure HRV isn’t that.

                        Dimitrios KanellopoulosD W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                          last edited by

                          @nickk yup

                          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
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                          • W Offline
                            wakarimasen Silver Members @Guest
                            last edited by

                            @nickk said in Sleep Tracking:

                            @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…

                            I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.

                            Yup - that’s me 😖

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                            Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @wakarimasen
                              last edited by

                              @wakarimasen and me sometimes.

                              • Oh shit , this night the guys came and I drunk 3 beers and look at my heart rate now. Trying to sleep and it’s f6373 like 80bpm. Oh man I am going to have a bad sleep again and how will I train tomorrow. I wished I had just watched a series.

                              Me a couple of years ago :

                              • yeah what a great night, I’ll sleep like a bird don’t even need to watch tv. (And it was like that)

                              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
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                              • W Offline
                                wakarimasen Silver Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                last edited by

                                @dimitrios-kanellopoulos
                                WHY IS MY WATCH JUDGING ME…

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                                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @wakarimasen
                                  last edited by

                                  @wakarimasen because you ask it to “guide” you.

                                  I agree that it it’s guiding is fine, but ain’t then a point when you need no guidance ?

                                  That said we are out of topic. The guys need help with accuracy in sleep tracking.

                                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                  ? W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • ? Offline
                                    A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                    last edited by

                                    @dimitrios-kanellopoulos I beg to differ! We are helping!

                                    Why track accurately something that shouldn’t be tracked at all? 😰

                                    Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                                      last edited by

                                      @nickk of course you differ. And actually that’s great. Thank you for that. And mostly for the debate.

                                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
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                                      • W Offline
                                        wakarimasen Silver Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                        last edited by

                                        @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Only joking @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
                                        I find sleep tracking pretty helpful, and especially like to understand sleep phases. I’m assuming it’s also used to ‘inform’ recovery and resource levels.
                                        Unfortunately, I find my S9B not as accurate for me, compared my old Vantage V. I understand this can be personal (and may be based on the sensor used) but am not worried too much, as I don’t want to stress too much about it.
                                        I do wonder if the S9P would be more accurate though…😉

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                                        • Patrick LöfflerP Offline
                                          Patrick Löffler Silver Members
                                          last edited by

                                          I am currently trying out the Suunto 7. I like the sleep tracking very much! I know also already discussed. But again: The hardware of the S9P has at least the same capabilities. So why not improve the software to the same level? Please do not tell me it is a licensing question. If so, just get it licensed. 🙂

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                                          ? DMytroD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • ? Offline
                                            A Former User @Patrick Löffler
                                            last edited by

                                            @patrick-löffler Just get it licensed… And who’s gonna pay for that? It was actually quite nice for Suunto to add all the FB pieces like daily stress, body resources, VO2 Max to existing S9 a whole year after the series went out. I don’t know another manufacturer, Garmin including, who licenses new third party bits for existing units and does so free of charge.

                                            Anyways, it’s not just licensing. S7 being WearOS is a completely different animal (read: codebase) than other Sx watches. I’d imagine S9P and S9 are pretty much the same code. So, even without FB licenses involved, pulling features from one line and into another, let alone specifically S9P… I think it’s a tough ask.

                                            Not impossible, but certainly not a question of removing comments around a code block…

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