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    Sleep Tracking

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto 9 Peak
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    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
      last edited by

      While I don’t know I don’t see an issue s9P using FB algos. However I would personally prefer a better algo from Suunto or a better algo in general as FB is licensed

      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

      ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • ? Offline
        A Former User @Jamie BG
        last edited by A Former User

        @jamie-bg This isn’t correct. By lower cost units I mean watches like Venu 2 and Venu Sq, which most definitely have onboard sleep tracking. As do (or should have it soon) entry level Forerunners. I think DCR was quoting Garmin in one of his recent reviews saying the onboard sleep analysis is coming out across their entire device line.

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        • ? Offline
          A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
          last edited by A Former User

          @dimitrios-kanellopoulos I think the only truly better algo that exists out there is Fitbit, and even that doesn’t really give you anywhere close to real sleep phases. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to match lab grade polysomnography with a watch on your wrist. But even if we could do that, then what? How can you make yourself have more REM or N2/N3 sleep?

          It’s like those running dynamics metrics. Very cool in theory but hardly something you can consciously change.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years all this faux analysis go back to where it had started a while back: a graph of your sleep movement, sleep/awake tracking (the only thing watches get mostly right), and a general sleep quality score that would take into account many other components such as duration, regularity, restlessness, etc.

          Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
          • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
            Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
            last edited by

            @nickk agreed.

            Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
            Creator of Quantified-Self.io
            youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
            https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
            https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
              last edited by

              @nickk however

              This guy

              https://twitter.com/BStulberg?s=09

              Wisely says

              Part of the reason that so many people are so tired is because they track so many things. If you are tracking your sleep, then, in a sense, you are working even when you are sleeping. Same goes for eating, taking steps, and so on. It is an utterly exhausting way to live.

              But that is another case and maybe why I don’t give a dime about all this in a personal level.

              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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              • ? Offline
                A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                last edited by A Former User

                @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…

                I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.

                I hope the pendulum swings back. It’s about time we collect less data but what we do collect is actually pertinent to our well being. Trying to deduce your brain waves from wrist movement, or overall recovery from a randomly chosen period to quickly measure HRV isn’t that.

                Dimitrios KanellopoulosD W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                  last edited by

                  @nickk yup

                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                  • W Offline
                    wakarimasen Silver Members @Guest
                    last edited by

                    @nickk said in Sleep Tracking:

                    @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…

                    I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.

                    Yup - that’s me 😖

                    Suunto Race Titanium
                    Suunto Ambit3 Peak
                    Polar H10
                    Polar OH1

                    Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @wakarimasen
                      last edited by

                      @wakarimasen and me sometimes.

                      • Oh shit , this night the guys came and I drunk 3 beers and look at my heart rate now. Trying to sleep and it’s f6373 like 80bpm. Oh man I am going to have a bad sleep again and how will I train tomorrow. I wished I had just watched a series.

                      Me a couple of years ago :

                      • yeah what a great night, I’ll sleep like a bird don’t even need to watch tv. (And it was like that)

                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                      W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                      • W Offline
                        wakarimasen Silver Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                        last edited by

                        @dimitrios-kanellopoulos
                        WHY IS MY WATCH JUDGING ME…

                        Suunto Race Titanium
                        Suunto Ambit3 Peak
                        Polar H10
                        Polar OH1

                        Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @wakarimasen
                          last edited by

                          @wakarimasen because you ask it to “guide” you.

                          I agree that it it’s guiding is fine, but ain’t then a point when you need no guidance ?

                          That said we are out of topic. The guys need help with accuracy in sleep tracking.

                          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                          youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                          https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                          https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                          ? W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • ? Offline
                            A Former User @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                            last edited by

                            @dimitrios-kanellopoulos I beg to differ! We are helping!

                            Why track accurately something that shouldn’t be tracked at all? 😰

                            Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                              last edited by

                              @nickk of course you differ. And actually that’s great. Thank you for that. And mostly for the debate.

                              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                              • W Offline
                                wakarimasen Silver Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                last edited by

                                @dimitrios-kanellopoulos Only joking @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
                                I find sleep tracking pretty helpful, and especially like to understand sleep phases. I’m assuming it’s also used to ‘inform’ recovery and resource levels.
                                Unfortunately, I find my S9B not as accurate for me, compared my old Vantage V. I understand this can be personal (and may be based on the sensor used) but am not worried too much, as I don’t want to stress too much about it.
                                I do wonder if the S9P would be more accurate though…😉

                                Suunto Race Titanium
                                Suunto Ambit3 Peak
                                Polar H10
                                Polar OH1

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                                • Patrick LöfflerP Offline
                                  Patrick Löffler Silver Members
                                  last edited by

                                  I am currently trying out the Suunto 7. I like the sleep tracking very much! I know also already discussed. But again: The hardware of the S9P has at least the same capabilities. So why not improve the software to the same level? Please do not tell me it is a licensing question. If so, just get it licensed. 🙂

                                  Apple Watch Ultra (currently on my wrist)
                                  Thinking about going back to Suunto 9 Peak

                                  ? DMytroD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • ? Offline
                                    A Former User @Patrick Löffler
                                    last edited by

                                    @patrick-löffler Just get it licensed… And who’s gonna pay for that? It was actually quite nice for Suunto to add all the FB pieces like daily stress, body resources, VO2 Max to existing S9 a whole year after the series went out. I don’t know another manufacturer, Garmin including, who licenses new third party bits for existing units and does so free of charge.

                                    Anyways, it’s not just licensing. S7 being WearOS is a completely different animal (read: codebase) than other Sx watches. I’d imagine S9P and S9 are pretty much the same code. So, even without FB licenses involved, pulling features from one line and into another, let alone specifically S9P… I think it’s a tough ask.

                                    Not impossible, but certainly not a question of removing comments around a code block…

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                                    • DMytroD Offline
                                      DMytro @Patrick Löffler
                                      last edited by

                                      @patrick-löffler I think it was mentioned somewhere, that broader sleep feature analysis might come to s9p eventually, as well as 1s daily HR (and spO2?) tracking. Dunno whether the same holds for s9B and whether firstbeat/suunto algos will be used.

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                                      • ? Offline
                                        A Former User @DMytro
                                        last edited by A Former User

                                        @dmytro I don’t see how we can have 1 sec continuous HR and keep current 7 day battery life on S9P. There will have to be an awful lot of optimizing happening elsewhere for this to happen.

                                        Also, I hope Suunto doesn’t go and try develop their own sleep analysis.

                                        Even Garmin with their practically unlimited resources had to abandon a home grown machine learning cloud solution and switch to FB algos running on the watch. And accuracy of everyone else, who had a stab at it, be it Polar, Oura, or even WHOOP, leaves a lot to be desired.

                                        I’d rather Suunto focus on other stuff… You know, multiple sensors per type, full Stryd integration like COROS, structured workouts, multiple S+ fields that get persisted between activities. Maybe fixing those zombie notifications and making notifications actionable, i.e. being able to dismiss them on the watch or act on them when connected to Android phone. Weather, like Polar, would be nice. As will be sunrise/sunset calendar like Garmin or COROS. Multiple alarms? Multiple timers? Maybe music controls for the phone…

                                        Super-basic map outline for loaded routes, around waypoints or turns, so you know which trail to take…

                                        A man can dream, and his dreams aren’t about sleep tracking 😊

                                        DMytroD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • DMytroD Offline
                                          DMytro @Guest
                                          last edited by

                                          @nickk s9p already has LEDs always on for HR monitoring, but the data gets acquired only every 12min as part of legacy code from s9b (source: chasethesummit review on s9b, commentaries from dcrainmaker).
                                          Suunto already uses its algos for sleep tracking on s5/s9b/s9p, works spot on for me. So, if they continue development - great, of they get 3d party algos - great as well. Wherever they lead, I’ll follow.

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                                          • DMytroD Offline
                                            DMytro @Guest
                                            last edited by

                                            @nickk this turns outline you mention might be coming sooner than you think:)
                                            There was a survey on that matter quite recently and they don’t make surveys for nothing I don’t think.

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