Suunto 9 Peak

kukubau

Reportedly, the S9 Peak VO2 max is underestimated/or less accurate compared to other sport watches, Sunnto’s and competition’s. Does this have to do with having VO2 max technology licensed from Firstbeat and/or poor implementation?

isazi

@kukubau I get the same VO2max with the Peak, the Baro, Garmin, and also a Cooper test.

Brad_Olwin

@isazi I do not, my Peak and baro register much lower than Cooper or lab tests. But that is because 99% of my runs are below Aerobic threshold and on trails.

isazi

@brad_olwin trails must be the reason, my VO2max drops considerably every year (according to the watch, doubt it’s real) when I go to the mountains

Brad_Olwin

@isazi Trails will bring any road runner into reality:)

cosme.costa

@brad_olwin said in Suunto 9 Peak:

@isazi Trails will bring any road runner into reality:)

So true!!

chrisc92

@brad_olwinin VO2max is a measure of oxygen cunsomption in and that can only be measured in a lab. in order to have consistent results with a watch, the minimal HR and maximal HR have to be carrefully mesured and entered in the watch (for HRmin, when resting in bed after wakeup)
also age and sex have to be entered as Firstbeat uses studies results.

Firstbeat algorithms take also into account activity levels and effforts, so HR measurement have to be accurate (test your OHR before or use a belt strap)
Also VO2max can change during the week, so if you want to make a test, follow a like-cooper test protocol :
run in a straight line and on flat least at 70% of threshold speed

for example running at submaximal effort speed for 10 min on flat could give a good VO2max value

Brad_Olwin

@chrisc92 I understand VO2 Max, my lab test is 8 ml/kg/min higher than the top values I get from the watch. Obviously when I am running hard intervals my max goes up on the watch and down with long trail runs at or below my aerobic threshold (aerobic not anaerobic!). My HR zones are set differently than what Suunto recommends as well, set by my coach. This likely affects the watch calculations as well.

@brad_olwin I tend to believe that reality has nothing to do with it. It’s just a calculated metric which lacks some of measured metrics that differentiate these sports.

chrisc92

@brad_olwin I found an old article in french about Firstbeat and Garmin, and the guy noticed that his VO2Max dropped when running in altitude and then he was recomended to run on flat
( don’t know if googgle trad could help there are interesting study references at the end )

Firstbeat VO2 estimation - valid or voodoo?
Maybe you could contact firstbeat i don’t know if someone know if they have forums ?

My opinion is that it is difficult to estimate an oxygen consumption on the field whith such HR devices and GPS.
To record a more reliable metric I tried to run with Stryd power meter , a foot pod sensor based on Power estimation . it has a good protocol to calibrate the critical power (like bike FTP) Power Duration Curve is updated by tracking best efforts in your activity

If not running in two much high grades it provide some Normalized Power , as pace zones or HR zones are difficult to estimate when not running on a track.
Initially I ordered it to have a better instant pace displayed on the S9B because pods are better when calculating pace based on stride. And it turned out that Stryd is much better than Suunto fused speed

Then following this personal curve predictions are more reliable than those based on VO2max percentages

Brad_Olwin

@chrisc92 I have a Stryd and have had one a long time. I even have the first version in an HR monitor. Stryd has major issues on trails as well. I use it for trail hill intervals but that is about it. I could go into many details but not worth it here.

After using the watch for a bit, I have one suggestion for the devs, is it possible to have the menu in infinite loop?
It is a bit annoying when you arrive to your fitness level, to have to go all the way back to the main screen.

DMytro

@andré-faria you could hold down the middle button to quickly return to main screen.

isazi

@andré-faria swipe to go back to the watch face.

wotus

Every time I start my custom running mode I am forced to calibrate FusedTrack, even if it was calibrated just few minutes before. The Battery mode at start is always custom (endurance), even if my last set up was performance mode.
Why are the last settings not saved?

isazi

@wotus I have reported to Suunto this bug already. The custom mode remains the default one once used it for the sport mode. Should be fixed (I hope).

stromdiddily

Is it too early to ask for a Suunto 9 Peak XL?

I really dig the form factor but it is WAY small compared to the baro…sorry

chrisc92

@brad_olwin oh in trail I think it’s difficult for all products, it depends on elevation but also from the nature of the terrain : sand , mud, rocks have consequences on Running Efficiency. Also woods cause temporary GPS losses, and altitude causes oxygen limitation and hypoxic conditions, more HR for same VO2 consumption.
Vertical speed is more important than pace and specific algorithm should be developped. With Barometer Suunto would have a good platform to make a specific trail sport mode, maybe spO2 could help to determine your acclimation to altitude (Garmin has developed such an index)

chrisc92

@stromdiddily I fully agree with you, keep the same thickness but maybe a bigger screen, maybe 48 mm ? Kind of lighter S7 formfactor ?

freeheeler

@stromdiddily said in Suunto 9 Peak:

Is it too early to ask for a Suunto 9 Peak XL?

I really dig the form factor but it is WAY small compared to the baro…sorry

I’ll be in for 50mm, a customized bezel and bigger buttons

…I’m skilled in Creo, I could also give a hand there… just to mention it once again