One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad

BrunoH

@ChrisA … and what bothers me is the amount of people who seem to have bought an expensive piece of equipment (should be an investment for years to come) on a whim without proper research. More money than common sense? And then every feature that hasn’t been implemented exactly according to their liking is absolutely wrong. Then comes the inevitable why. WHY hasn’t Suunto fixed MY problems yet 'cause it would be so easy…

It took me weeks to follow up Vertical’s first baby steps before I made up my mind. I knew what I was getting and nothing came as surprise.

OK, I’ll go back hibernating. Wake me up when the upgrade comes

Olaf Gottschalk

@ChrisA said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

I don’t really exactly understand why are you asking this in the Suunto forum? Wouldn’t be the tech bloggers channel the right place? And while it’s understandable that if someone isn’t satisfied with a product, one tries to find solutions and - if there are none - even returns the product and of course that can be a disappointing experience, but I see more and more posts here are from people who just seem to ‘dump / unload’ their emotional dissatisfaction here. You will for sure get a lot of help here in the forum from nice people, if you want. If you just want to complain, that’s ok too and you have all the right to do so, if you’re not satisfied with a product, but I found a lot of my problems and questions I had, when first using a Suunto answered by the people in this forum.

You’re absolutely right. The forum might not be the correct place. Sorry for that.
I just hoped that long time Suunto users here are also in active contact to Suunto and that Suunto also is active here. That might not be the case, which would be a bummer.

So, WHY I buy a product and complain? Because I couldn’t believe how many simple things from a dev standpoint are still open and missed. If I were responsible for a product, I can guarantee you, my watch would support emojis in 2023… my watch’s bluetooth menu would show the ID of connected devices. This is by no means in any way difficult or impossible to program.
Yes, I am frustrated because this world is full of crappy products. I have been deeply disappointed by Polar for over a year due to mid activity crashes with total loss. They did not care at all. I did not want to support Garmin for their “millions of devices strategy” and really ugly and outdated app. So, there is not much to go to. Suunto or Coros is basically it. And as the Race is really a beautiful watch with potential, I went for it, not allowing any thoughts that somebody could actually bake in such illogical limitations.
If companies like Suunto had me as a tester, it would take me one week to tell them how to make their product a LOT better.

Another finding after just 2 weeks… Suunto’s support is not a whole lot better than Polar’s. They take more than a week to answer an email and don’t get the question right - their answer is merely a link to some documentation which has nothing to do with the problem. Asking on Facebook messenger gives me even more stupid answers from people who do not understand a question like “why can’t I pair two bike sensors” and answer with “Smart bikes are not compatible”… LOL

Olaf Gottschalk

@General_Witt said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Hi!

1 - You can set notifications to vibrate only in a specific menu of the watch

As far as I know this does not only affect smartphone notifications, but also ALL tones. This is not what is needed.

2 - We can only hope in a future update about emojis

Polar’s Vantage V in 2018 also started without Emojis and they fixed that in an update… it’s been 5 years since then. Everybody uses them, lots of answers to yes/no questions are simply thumbs up or down. It is not in any way understandable to NOT support them.

3 - Sleep tracking has been very accurate with me so far. Sleep time, naps, nights where I wake up a couple times for the bathroom and then sleep again. I’ve read it is very important that you set the rest hear rate correctly to track your sleep accurately. Try changing it with the minimum heart rate in the last 12 hours in the morning as the Suunto manual suggests

I am trying this now. Let’s see how it behaves then! It is a bummer they did not put “Rest HR” into the sleep setting’s menu AND point out this is NOT min HR.

5 - With visual maps on the watch I just turned navigation notifications off. Especially in a hike you won’t need them, just look at the map on your watch when you approach a crossroad

Well, no. I cannot really agree here. The trails I mostly do have barely visible paths that go off the “main” roads. Easy to miss and the off route info comes really a tad to late for that.
I do not understand how hard it is to follow a simple pattern/logic: a route is a set of waypoints with instructions. For hiking/running activities notify 100m or maybe 200m before the point about it and its text (“in 100m turn …”) and then AT exactly the point notify with “NOW …”. For biking, maybe a larger distance would be feasable. But those are simple values you can test around with. The current implementation tells you only once what to do next, even if “next” is in 100km! This is just… stupid.

Mauerwegler

@BrunoH said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@ChrisA … and what bothers me is the amount of people who seem to have bought an expensive piece of equipment (should be an investment for years to come) on a whim without proper research.

I‘ll try to put myself in such a person:

Well, Suunto has (or had) the reputation that the watches have less features than some competitors, but those are well implemented. Also known is the build quality. So I understand that there are people who think that if there is a vendor who will not disappoint them it is most likely Suunto.
I think Olaf might just be stymied that „the glass is not only half full, it is even 90 % full“, but then the devs made some decisions that were „thrown in as a first shot“ and never got polished (like show the ID of the paired sensor). He pointed them out to help achieve the last 10 %. Now it seems that different people‘s threshold of what is unacceptable and what is okay, just get on with it, varies largely. Remember that he is not asking for new features (besides pairing several sensors of the same type).

It took me weeks to follow up Vertical’s first baby steps before I made up my mind. I knew what I was getting and nothing came as surprise.

That is what I do at the moment, because I‘ve learned that with the SSU as well: not cheap and the initial FW had about half the features it has now.

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

wmichi

@BrunoH People “complain” here because it is a channel to reach Suunto. Here are people testing devices for Suunto and even people who work for Suunto. Of course users use this channel to communicate whatever they think could be improvements to the watches/app.

If it is our opinion, of course you can say pointing out bugs is just complaining in a negative way. I don’t see it like that. It’s valuable information. Some, maybe even most bugs will already be known, others not. And maybe there are workarounds other users can share. There are feature requests and questions because of confusing documentation (min hr/resting hr is a recent example). Also valuable information. To me this is not complaining but all just feedback for Suunto.

It’s just wrong to say people don’t have common sense (basically you say they are stupid), when they communicate that some features don’t work as expected. I would argue that most of this feedback is not just based on very few singular opinions. Like “I like the color pink, why is the background of the screen not always pink? We now have AMOLED! Make it pink!”. I think it’s one of the most challenging things when designing a product/software, to meet the expectations of a large user base of how things “should” work, that functionalities are easy to understand and somehow all of this also needs to look cool. That’s tough. But to make a product better, to be able to iterate, you NEED feedback. So I would say, the more complaints the better. But at the same time also the more happy people expressing themselves here the better. As I said: every feedback is valuable, even if some communicate it harshly.

Telling critical voices that they don’t have common sense would be the end of product development. I don’t work for Suunto, I don’t know anyone working at Suunto, but I am pretty sure this is not how people think at Suunto. Whatever you create, you have to handle critique. If you can’t, don’t create something other people should use. Just my opinion.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Tieutieu said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

I cannot tell you why, but this is not how it behaves here. Sadly. I would not complain if it was!

Suunto support also just noted it down and did not say that it should work like you describe…

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Tieutieu said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

I cannot tell you why, but this is not how it behaves here. Sadly. I would not complain if it was!

Suunto support also just noted it down and did not say that it should work like you describe…

I’ll let Race users confirm then. Please try again sometimes, It should work so.

sartoric

@Olaf-Gottschalk
I understand your frustration, but you have the most powerful weapon available to users to ease your disappointment, “Return policy”.

Get your money back and keep enjoying sports and your life.
You’re not bound to Suunto and its products, there is no reason to keep ranting and being unsatisfied

… I would go for this

BrunoH

@wmichi I am willing to assist here anyone who can behave. Sure, there are people here who can act as a channel towards Suunto, but none of us need to stand caps-lock sceaming about wreck features. I’m glad you have more patience.

You seem to have interpreted that complaning is stupid in my opinion. Nope, everyone can complain and suggest improvements as much as they like, but I want people to act civilized. We all are volunteers here.

I know it’s bad for business if people stopped buying a new top-of-the-line sports watch twice a year without proper research of the features, quality and known shortcomings. And that’s what I mean with the lack of common sense. I stand my ground, me and my old fashioned sustainability opinions.

Mauerwegler

@sartoric said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk
I understand your frustration, but you have the most powerful weapon available to users to ease your disappointment, “Return policy”.

Get your money back and keep enjoying sports and your life.
You’re not bound to Suunto and its products, there is no reason to keep ranting and being unsatisfied

… I would go for this

I would not return the watch if I were him because: it almost does what he wants, and he has hope (otherwise he would not post here) that some of his five points might get fixed with FW updates. That is my interpretation.

I find your suggestion to return the watch too harsh. Does not help him (unhappy with Polar) nor Suunto (why returned without comments?) – better discuss it openly.

fv4500

Not directly related with the specific questions discussed (sorry), but I need to say that I find the general tone used in this post… well… surprising. I see a lot of people readily available to provide experience, insight and suggestions, basically for free. I don’t understand this permanent “complain mode” in which people post in here, and the patience shown by members is phenomenal. Thanks!

ChrisA

@Olaf-Gottschalk I can understand you frustration. Products should work, not causing trouble and I think you’re doing the right thing by pointing the finger on those things. Since you don’t got valuable feedback from the companies (be it Polar or Suunto), I hope the forum here can make your experience with the Race more satisfying

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
No i agree with you I wouldn’t stick with a company like that either; and part of reason why I queried as you seemed to like what polar offered, they have a new product - but weren’t interested in it.
In fact have stopped using companies/products for similar reasons and never returned - plus I am not shy in stating why I don’t use them/their products either.

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
he pretty much does - per the piece I quoted, and as at least one other in this thread agrees. Highlighted wahoo - as don’t they make the kicker and isn’t that what you were complaining about in terms of connectivity with it and other sensors. This was your complaint - I did struggle to read and make sense of that - but maybe I misunderstood your point 4. The whole phrase in the " " (qoutation marks) is a quote from DC Rainmakers review. It is him stating it not me - and its him suggesting not to use wahoo due to its limitations and suunto’s limitations, whereas garmin devices due to their connectivity options can get around the suunto limitations. I only highlighted that part of the quote to make it stand out (perhaps I should have highlighted the whole quote to make it easier to see I was quoting Ray).

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
Use Suunto instead of Komoot - maybe because that would solve your route issues. When I have used suunto routes in the past (and maybe its changed - its been a while) I never had any issues with turn instructions.

And while I am now on garmin often when pulling in a course from an alternative platform you sometimes have to run it thorugh the garmin course builder to make sure than TBT is turned on and it then also seems to do a better job in ensuring the turns come up properly. When not doing so I have come across issues, in particular when running courses pulled from Komoot. So might be more of a Komoot issue than a suunto/garmin issue. You could at least try and see if that resolves your TBT issues - if it does then can at least work with suunto/komoot to help resolve the issue. Or not - your choice.

Tieutieu

@Jamie-BG This thread is - to my mind - a bit “over-reacting” thread. That is more often the case recently on this forum. But that’s my point of vue, and it is not a judgement of any kind.

Considering the 5 points that are discussed here :

1/nofications. Answers have been done. Ok maybe not totally satisfaying and need to evolve…
2/emojis. well…For sure suunto’s watches are first of all sports and adventure watches…not “smartwatches at first”. But ok, that’s a little point for those who care. But I’m sorry, I don’t understand how it makes the SR unusable.
3/sleep tracking…works fine for most users…(title is “one weekend and I’m sad…”, but "sleep tracking doesnt work most of time ?!!)
4/Sensors : ok no identification and it could/must get better…But come on, who appairs a sensor just in the middle of the crowd before a race ?
5/ turn by turn : I keep telling that 100m alert before next turn is the way it works.

If those points are more important and go over everything else that is great with SR :

for sure @Olaf-Gottschalk should maybe return is watch
for sure with any other brand he’ll find annoying things with any watch model

Anyway, I’m sure everyone here has and will help as much as they can. Me included.
But we can’t change : people’s buying behaviours and reactions to some feature’s lack or bugs.

wmichi

@BrunoH Well I think everything is still civilised here. To me it seems more people are using Suunto watches. And it will be even more thanks to the Race. But that’s also a reason why more unsatisfied customers might find their way into this forum. Everybody just has to deal with this. As long as it stays civilised

Sorry, when I misunderstood you. Actually I meant you said early adopters are stupid. But what would you do without early adopters doing the baby steps? The only real solution is, that companies return to releasing finished and well tested products. We as customers cannot stop to demand this. See it this way: this could be a standout feature of Suunto

There are quite a view posts where somebody complains about complainers, and for them it seems everything always works perfectly fine, for example sleep tracking. I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”. This algorithm stuff is highly individual just like OHR. And this is Suunto first take on their own implementation. It’s super important to have critical voices pointing problems out. Yes, I am more patient. I don’t care if some people “scream” their opinions. Let them scream. If I don’t want this, I don’t read it. And just by saying that this or that feature is crap doesn’t mean the whole product is crap (it is definitely not!).

Regarding sustainability: I would argue that nearly everyone who buys every year a new watch (or even more often, because the eternal search for the perfect device does never end for some people) sells the old one second hand.

ChrisA

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

And saying ‘Suunto broke the Race (again)’ because it doesn’t work for one person is the same thing, just the other way around .

I think it’s this way of ‘black and white painting’ (to stress a German phrase) thats’s not the style, communication usually takes place in this forum - at least that’s my impression. I always saw people here discussing problems in a more sensible, intelligent and rational matter, trying to find solutions or at least workarounds and not so much raging about the product or even the company.

Tieutieu

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:
I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

I wrote that. I totally agree with you about OHR comparison in terms accuracy ; for now no sensor or algorythm works perfeclty on everyone.
My sleeping tracking works fine most of the time. Sometimes, it doesn’t. I’m off course not a “reference” and don’t own the “truth”…But in the same time it is not because few people complain about it that it doesn’t works.

Some metrics that our watches record make sens as “instant mesures” (of course distance, instant speed, activity HR… - that’s why I use chest strap instead of OHR for high intensity exercices).

But about training load, sleep, rest and recovery, we should not forget that it is a “long term” tendancy that makes sens.
That also why suunto coach uses 6 weeks tendancy to provide analyses.

So my point is : telling sleep tracking, or HRV…is not always “totally accurate”, it is not the main point.