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Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved SuuntoPlus™ Sports Apps
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  • F Offline
    Frederick Rochette Bronze Member @olaffen
    last edited by 10 Mar 2023, 16:36

    @olaffen yes same for me. NGP is not reliable at all

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    • I Online
      isazi Moderator
      last edited by 10 Mar 2023, 18:38

      I am asking the developers. Stay tuned.

      Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

      Blog: isazi's home

      O 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 08:34 Reply Quote 1
      • I Online
        isazi Moderator
        last edited by 10 Mar 2023, 18:47

        So the NGP field should be instant, not average. If you don’t see it responding, something’s wrong with that. I’ll let you know what I hear. Probably after the weekend.

        Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

        Blog: isazi's home

        O E 2 Replies Last reply 10 Mar 2023, 19:02 Reply Quote 2
        • O Offline
          olaffen @isazi
          last edited by 10 Mar 2023, 19:02

          @isazi Thanks! Then it should work as I had hoped. Looking forward to hear more. 😊

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          • Ł Offline
            Łukasz Szmigiel
            last edited by 10 Mar 2023, 19:49

            S+ climb on S9PP is missing a translation string on auto lap summary (polish).

            PXL_20230310_140035184.jpg

            S9PP 2.40.44

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            • O Offline
              olaffen @isazi
              last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 08:34

              @isazi Any updates?

              I 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 08:57 Reply Quote 1
              • I Online
                isazi Moderator @olaffen
                last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 08:57

                @olaffen I asked some people and for them is working, I am waiting for more comments.

                Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                Blog: isazi's home

                O 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 08:58 Reply Quote 2
                • O Offline
                  olaffen @isazi
                  last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 08:58

                  @isazi I will test some more then and see if I can manage to get it to work.

                  I 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 09:00 Reply Quote 0
                  • I Online
                    isazi Moderator @olaffen
                    last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 09:00

                    @olaffen I would test it too, but my only hill is 12 meters tall and not very representative of real hills. I’m going there during the weekend, though.

                    Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                    Blog: isazi's home

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                    • E Offline
                      el2thek Bronze Member @isazi
                      last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 17:07

                      @isazi said in Suunto Plus apps:

                      So the NGP field should be instant, not average. If you don’t see it responding, something’s wrong with that. I’ll let you know what I hear. Probably after the weekend.

                      Tested it just now. For me (9 baro) there at least seems to be a delay. At the bottom of each hill my pace was about 6 min/km. The NGP started at 7+ min/km and then took about a minute to get under the pace I was running. Average hill interval NGP afterwards was 4.58 min/km.

                      The same us true for the rest. After each hill it’s fairly flat and I walked for about 30-40 seconds. Pace was about 10 min/km. At the start of the rest NGP was around 4 min/km. When I started running again about 7 min/km. At least faster than I was walking.

                      F 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 17:13 Reply Quote 1
                      • F Offline
                        Frederick Rochette Bronze Member @el2thek
                        last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 17:13

                        @el2thek yes there is a bug, I also tested today ond it’s not NGP but the exactly the current pace…

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                        • F Offline
                          fluca Silver Members @olaffen
                          last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 17:41

                          @olaffen Hi You are right, NGP is an average by Design. Somewhere it averages data and elevate at the 4th power if I remeber well. So you are right and it’s not a bug.

                          F 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 18:20 Reply Quote 0
                          • F Offline
                            freeheeler @fluca
                            last edited by 16 Mar 2023, 18:20

                            @fluca
                            I’m not sure if it is avg over the ascent lap. when I tested it, I could not look constantly on the watch, but I notice it was reactive and not “stuck”. could it be that the value is smoothened over a certain time to avoid jumping numbers?

                            living sideways

                            F 1 Reply Last reply 20 Mar 2023, 10:35 Reply Quote 0
                            • O Offline
                              olaffen
                              last edited by 18 Mar 2023, 12:12

                              I have reset my watch and removed the app and added it again, and tested it some more. I have deliberately varied the pace during one lap, even to a complete halt. The NGP field during the interval responds slowly. After I stop completely, while keeping the interval going, the pace slowly goes down. After standing still for as long as I first ran, the NGP has slowed to half of its value when I stopped. This makes me think it is an average of the entire interval.

                              I am aware of the exponential averaging in the NGP formula, but I would think an “instant” NGP would respond similarly to the NGP in the Climb app or the TrainingPeaks Running Pace app. But this is not the case for me.

                              During the rest period, the NGP field, which I understand should be the average NGP of the previous interval, changes as I change my pace and responds almost instantly. This makes me think there is a mixup. How does the NGP behave in rest mode for others?

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                              • D Offline
                                Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
                                last edited by 19 Mar 2023, 08:56

                                There is a huge problem mathematically on realtime to show a good instant ngp.

                                The reason is that you need time and a moving window to detect a proper grade.

                                Having implementing the Gap on QS with the guy from elevate for Strava I am quite familiar with the problem.

                                Ngp should be 10s - 30s buffered to show some valuable info for the user. That is because the altitude variations influence a lot the pace.

                                I am not speaking on behalf of Suunto , in this one at least but from personal experience.

                                If you want to think about it , take your data and try to calculate the instant (0.5s to 1s grade).

                                Imo from what I have used suuntos ngap for me works more than fine. The purpose of realtime ngap is to give you a better feeling , not for doing intervals of 30s etc.

                                Ideally an average of 1minute for me would be great.

                                Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                E D T 3 Replies Last reply 19 Mar 2023, 09:00 Reply Quote 4
                                • E Offline
                                  el2thek Bronze Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                  last edited by 19 Mar 2023, 09:00

                                  @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos for me that’s acceptable. Normally I wouldn’t check my pace during a hill repeat. Though it should be communicated like that to avoid confusion.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • O Offline
                                    olaffen
                                    last edited by 19 Mar 2023, 10:13

                                    I appreciate the difficulty of programming a meaningful “instant” NGP or GAP, and I think Suunto has done a great job at it for the TP running pace S+ app, and similarly for the Climb app. I was just hoping the implementation and results would be similar for the Manual Hill Reps. And of course, I agree that the usability would be limited to longer reps as an intensity guide before HR stabilises. That’s why I would like to be able to see both instant HR and “instant” NGP in the same screen.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                    • D Offline
                                      DMytro @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                      last edited by 19 Mar 2023, 11:31

                                      @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos but couldn’t the watch display a running average of 1m or 30s and ‘sell’ it as instant?

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • T Offline
                                        trailcafe Bronze Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                        last edited by 19 Mar 2023, 11:42

                                        @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos have you by chance tried the effort pace at Coros watches, how reactive is that? I myself have not tested it, because I run purely on power on the mountain and no longer use a Coros watch.

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                                        • F Offline
                                          fluca Silver Members @freeheeler
                                          last edited by 20 Mar 2023, 10:35

                                          @freeheeler Yep, I recall the formula was (exponentially?) smoothed for some reason (I generically said averaged). I could observe in the code of the APP available on movescount and suitable for Ambit Family in the old days…

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